Sami Kinnison (00:00)
Welcome everyone to this week’s episode of the podcast. I’m one of your hosts, Amy Kinison. I’m a communication coach who likes to help people say what’s on the inside in a good way on the outside.

Angela Belford (00:11)
My name is Angela Belford. I am an executive coach. Also honestly, you know what people call me for a lot right now is public speaking coaching. And what I love about that is I get to pull in the nervous system work that I do, as well as the marketing content piece of it, as well as long time fifteen plus years professional speaking. So you need that, I can help you even remotely.

Sami Kinnison (00:37)
We are a mother-daughter duo seeking to answer the question: what does it take to live a freaking awesome life? Today, we are going to be talking about something that happens when you have already started on your healing journey and you are starting to see past versions of yourself. And

There is a tension with the relationships around you as you continue to grow, and other people might be stuck on an old version of you. Maybe they liked that version better. Maybe it served them more for you to, you know, people please and be ridden by guilt and be easily manipulated. And now that those things aren’t as true anymore.

It

can be hard for folks around you. And so what do you do when you quote become a new version of you and have to navigate everybody else’s feelings about that?

Angela Belford (01:30)
Okay, I was so excited to do this episode and also I just suddenly with when you were setting it up, I was like, I have the best story

Sami Kinnison (01:39)
Hmm.

Angela Belford (01:40)
for this. I have a client that I’ve been working with for more than a decade. What’s really cool about being in business for 27 years is that doesn’t narrow it down. But I do talk about them kind of a lot. I’m learning a lot on my journey. But

I would say that for many, many years I was the kind of person that like I didn’t like to feel my feelings. I didn’t like to. So you got like two feelings for me. You got like anger or you got like normal, professional. That was it. Like you I was not the one that was ever gonna be crying in your office. And I didn’t get my feelings hurt because I didn’t know what my feelings were. They were buried. And it worked for me. It worked really well for me.

But now in my effort to, I don’t know, live a wholehearted life where I’m not causing myself to have a heart attack, because women, 50-year-old women, are like majorly susceptible to heart attacks and it presents different. And so I just was like, I want to take better care of my body. I am tired of sacrificing my own body for others. And so

And also I didn’t like being angry all the time. And so I you know, you guys have been along for my last five years of journey where I’m becoming more wholehearted. I’m more likely to feel I get my feelings hurt. Like it’s crazy.

Sami Kinnison (03:04)
What’s

Angela Belford (03:05)
Actually get my feelings hurt. I think I was getting my feelings hurt when I was mad. I just did showed up different. And so I have some people close to me that are like, What is this?

Why are you crying? Why are you making this face? And I’ve had to say to them, I am not a robot. I when you say things that frustrate me, when you say things that are unkind, when you say things, I am going to have a reaction. Now, I am trying to make you comfortable by like sitting back, taking a deep breath, but I can’t even make a facial expression without y’all freaking out. And I’m gonna need you to stop.

And they are they struggle a lot. And I I struggle because I want to be wholehearted and I can’t

Sami Kinnison (03:53)
Mm.

Angela Belford (03:54)
help when my nervous system responds. I literally this week was in a meeting and somebody is asking me a question and one of my coworkers who like my ADHD body double and he’s like, Wait, wait, wait, I have here, let me explain and no, hold your thought. I want to give her an opportunity to answer. I’m like

my god, literally but my face was melting. It was terrible. I was not crying, but I was literally could not. And finally I had to say, let him talk. I need a minute. And they they unpacked it a little bit. And then I finally was like,

Good thing. It was literally like frozen, like your computer. Like it was literally like a frozen zoom screen, like a anyway, and they and it was finally like, now afterwards we repaired, great relationship. And I was like, You’re not hearing me when I say I need a minute. Like I need a minute. And so anyway

Sami Kinnison (05:00)
I

think

you and I have also commented before facetiously, mm, usually. It’s frustrating when our old coping mechanisms to stuff our feelings away, to pretend they didn’t exist, and to like just crush through this thing stop working because we are more healed. And so then I can’t.

I can’t always access some of these unhealthy copy mechanisms that

Angela Belford (05:25)
Yes, yes.

Sami Kinnison (05:27)
would have been so nice in this moment. Like I would have, it would have been so good. And now I have to just like do it healthy and with full range of emotions. Ugh. Ew, gross. Those

kinds of things. So I have a really close friend of mine that she has been on.

Very dramatic healing journey. And she has been in therapy now for a couple of years, really comes from a very dysfunctional family. And her family on this journey has been really discouraging of her going to therapy and doing things that she enjoys and taking a new job in a new city that would move her farther away from them because they are annoyed that they’re well, this is Sami’s interview.

Interpretation. They’re annoyed that their manipulation tactics don’t work on her anymore. She is not as susceptible to being guilt-tripped into doing something that she doesn’t want to do. She’s not people pleasing as much, like we talked about last week. She’s doing the things that she feels comfortable with, and there’s less power that they have over her, and that frustrates the heck out of them. And I think that there are some people that when they don’t like the new version of you.

Almost it can be a sign of progress. I think there

Angela Belford (06:50)
Ha ha ha.

Sami Kinnison (06:51)
are some people that it is like good friends, it it takes re-getting to know you. And I don’t think it’s a bad thing, but it might be it, you know, hey, I’m not that way anymore, or the reminding I I think the best friends love our journeys with us and love on us through the journey and all the iterations of us. And it is really

I don’t know. I’m not sure that I have good advice for folks that want to hold you back from seeking a better way to do things of

Angela Belford (07:23)
Yeah.

Sami Kinnison (07:23)
like, well, you should listen to them and embrace what they’re saying and let them hold you back. I don’t think I can say that. I think it’s hard for me.

Angela Belford (07:31)
Well,

and I think that’s why I started with the no no no, there are physical implications to us not doing this work. There is literally

Sami Kinnison (07:39)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Belford (07:41)
and and think about those people that want you to be around and want you to be available. Well, guess what? Having a heart attack or worse, dying will be worse for them. And so, like, we have to put our own oxygen mask on first. And and

I think that it is loving to be a better version of ourselves because there’s also like you’ve had a couple of people in your life that are like, wow, I didn’t realize the water I swam in until I got to be friends with you. And I see that you are able to hold boundaries in a kind way. Wow. And and now I can do that as well. And so they’re now, I just think, wow, we have no idea the impact on that longevity and the strength of those relationships because they’re able to just

with kindness and love say no, no, mm mm

Sami Kinnison (08:35)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Belford (08:35)
and and it’s like w what do you mean no? And it’s like

Sami Kinnison (08:40)
Right.

Angela Belford (08:41)
it’s a whole sentence It’s a whole sentence.

Sami Kinnison (08:45)
So I we’ve talked a little bit about Splunkna a long while ago on the podcast. It is a mind, body, emotion, spiritual practice and protocol to help release emotions from your body. It is something that I am like in the middle of training of, and I mean, I have been for a while. I’ve got a little busy. We had a conversation at one of the trainings about the ethical implications of.

Providing healing for one part of a marriage when the other part is hardcore resistant to change, and they say, I don’t want to seek healing at all. Do you like one of the things you need to be mindful of is that if that we we made it numbers because it was easy to explain, a lot of us find people and are matched with people who are at similar levels of healing and similar levels on our journey.

And when one person goes from you know level 20 to a level 50, it can be really hard to stay with somebody who says, I’m unwilling to move from a level 20. I want to stay here, I am comfortable here, I know my unhealthy coping mechanisms, and I don’t want to change them. And that is really hard. And I think this is on the friend side when people think about they’ve, quote, outgrown their friends, or you know, maybe these were my friends when I was younger, but as I get older,

I need some different friends on the similar level of my journey that I’m at. It is, it can be really hard to release. I don’t know that we’re a fit anymore. I don’t know that these friends that I’m, you know, they’re the ones that like always party all night long, and I don’t know that I’m doing that anymore. It’s complicated. It is not always it, it is sometimes one of the costs of healing is knowing that you might.

Take a step forward that somebody else isn’t willing to take. Angela, you described it that at one point in time there was a point you were like, well, everybody must be on their healing journey. And it was like going across the the cavern in Indiana Jones that was this the leap of faith. If you haven’t seen the movie, spoiler alert, he’s gotta walk across this empty cavern and it looks like it’s just gonna he’s gonna take a step out and completely fall. He takes the step of faith and there is an invisible path.

You get to the other side, Angela, in this metaphor, and then you’re like, wait, it’s actually really lonely over here. There’s not a lot of people who’ve done this. And you’re standing on the other side of the cavern being like, Come on, it’s fine. The water’s great. Like, take a step, you’ll be okay. And it can be more lonely as you heal more. And it is imperative, I think, to find other people who are also healing so that you don’t have to only have the people around you.

who are at that other level, but to also add people around your life who get it and who understand it’s hard and who understand the the pain of having to release some of those friendships and the grief that that takes because it it’s not I wish I could say that it’s easy and it’s fun, but there are some people that you end up releasing because it’s not the right time anymore. It’s not the right friendship or relationship.

Angela Belford (12:02)
Yeah, so many things come to mind. Number one is that thanks for tell reminding me of that story because I think what I did in my twenties and thirties is I would stand over on the other side and be like, Come on, come with me. And as I look at the type of coaching that I do, where it is literally not just mindset coaching. You know, I wrote my first book ten years ago and and it would have

it was on track to be a mindset coach and now I am a somatic coach where somatic meets business, which means that I like I believe that stuff gets in our body and we keep track of it in our body. Body keep score, Pastor Vandalkolk. And so I think that contributes is that I perhaps maybe was so like excited about people being on this side of the journey.

That I that I’m like I think that’s why I cut it’s like okay, well me people need a guide and I don’t know where to send them. I had one of my clients call me this week to tell me about a decision that they had made, and I go, my gosh, I have so many sensations in my body about that decision. Because what shape is it? What color? Like what anyway, they made me laugh so hard. I like, nice work, nice work, that’s good. Anyway.

That comes up, but then the other thing is that there are people. So there’s this move, the movie Hitch, where he talks about that we’re like an you know, an iceberg. People may not need to see our whole self, but we they need to see our authentic self. There are people I’m in relationship with who are at a different point on their journey who

I think it would be unkind of me to just not be their friend. They’re they move at a very different pace. They move at a different and I still have the ability to have a ton of empathy and to to I don’t tell all of my stories. I am my whole real self, but I don’t may not tell them all of my stories right now.

And because it’s it’s a lot, it’s overwhelming, it’s whatever, but I tell those stories that relate to where they are. And that’s not me trying to be smaller, it’s me trying to meet somebody where they’re at. And and so that then I can be like an inspiration because I want to be in relationship with them and and they’re lovely and they are growing and they are changing and they’re just growing and changing at a different level. And so I get together with them at a different pace and a different relationship.

But I want to be their equal. I don’t always been to be the sage on

Sami Kinnison (14:50)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Belford (14:52)
the si stage. I’m not their coach. I want to be their friend equal. And so sometimes I remember what it I was like at that that stage of my journey. So I don’t want this to sound like once you start healing, you don’t need to be cashing out. It’s more related to people who have expectations of you that are like, well, you

Mom, you babysit every single weekend. You know, you bail me out when I go drinking and I don’t have money for rent. You do all of these things and then suddenly you start putting up some boundaries. And it’s like, wait, wait, wait, or no, mom, I’m not gonna answer your phone and go every single Saturday with you. I wanna have a life. I wanna be young and you know, and so I it can be both ways, both sides of that. I think the

Sami Kinnison (15:43)
I also think

that when sometimes we think about, you know, you become like the five people that you spend the most time with. I think about that for you. Do not whatever. We can go listen to the episode where Sami said that that was crap and then found out that it’s like the opposite of crap. It’s like more like a hundred people you spend time with, but whatever. I guess we’ll link it in the show notes if you want to go listen to that one. Sami’s wrong. You can tell I have feelings about that.

I think that that is important for you to consider who are the five people that you are spending the most time with. I also think that be somebody’s five people that they’re spending time

Angela Belford (16:22)
Yeah.

Sami Kinnison (16:23)
with. Like it is okay to think about I am influencing others just like others are influencing me. And and so now when you have somebody who’s resistant and

Like, I’m not changing, period. The end, that’s I think when you have to have boundaries conversations. When you have somebody who is like, man, we are all changing and growing together, and we’re doing like that. My dear friend who is on her journey right now, I was her friend well before she was on her journey. And our friendship became deeper and richer now that she is frankly struggling more. And I don’t mean it that way. I love you.

Angela Belford (17:00)
Yeah.

Sami Kinnison (17:01)
but

There is, there’s more opportunity for us to be there for each other and for us to understand like the journey in a deeper, richer way. As life gets more complicated, we get to have opportunity for a deeper relationship and to talk about these things. And so you can influence other people, and other people can influence you. Be mindful, be do that intentionally and not

just letting

Angela Belford (17:26)
Mm-hmm.

Sami Kinnison (17:26)
all the people around you bring you down unintentionally.

Angela Belford (17:31)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Sami Kinnison (17:33)
That’s what I have to

say about that. I don’t know. I was trying to figure out how to wrap that thought up.

Angela Belford (17:36)
I I love that. I love

that.

Part of this journey is actually becoming friends with yourself. I had this come up twice in coaching this week where we talk about this idea of emotionally focused therapy and even the Gottman method of relationships is like you’re going to be in a relationship with somebody, you’re going to have a break.

Like there’s gonna be you’re gonna have a fight, you’re gonna have an argument, you’re gonna disagree, whatever, and and the relationship is gonna feel at odds and you have to repair. And and I would say that if you wanna know the number one relationship tool that you need to learn to get really, really good at is repairing, because we’re all gonna do it. You have to know how to give forgiveness, accept forgiveness, you have to be able to extend grace, you have to receive grace, like there’s all this. It’s repair.

We are in relationship with ourselves as well. And so I think a lot of this piece of understanding when to hold on to a relationship and when to release it, we have to start with getting to know ourselves really well and and really spending time like knowing our heart and knowing recognizing when there’s fear, recognizing when there’s

discouragement, recognizing like like figuring out am I being in this relationship for generosity? Am I being in it because that’s what you should do? I don’t have a lot of deep family commitment to my previous family. And yet I do a better job of keeping up with my family members.

Because I want to, because I love them. And so I think that when we shift and and be able to spend time with people out of a desire to be with them and and there’s people that like they may never change and you can still choose to be present with them. You can still choose to have a relationship with them. Just gotta be really intentional about what let what you let them say and do and how you let it impact you.

Because some people gonna say what they gonna say. And you get to decide, like that’s adorable. That’s adorable that they would say that terrible thing. And other times it’s like, I’m not gonna stay in the room when you’re gonna be racist and misogynist. Hard stop period. Walking out. Okay, time to go. And and so like f but you gotta get to know yourself in that process.

Sami Kinnison (20:29)
Yeah. I also think one of the feelings that you didn’t highlight that would love to just remind us of is I think there can be a lot of grief and it’s complicated when

you’re healing and there can be grief that people don’t like the new you and that they aren’t on board with your growth and change. And so there’s they might be experiencing grief that you’re changing.

you

might be experiencing grief that you’re changing, that they’re not on board that you’re changing. And you know, the gr we talked we made it a joke that we can’t use our unhealthy coping mechanisms, but that is a grief that like I now have to face this. I’ve chosen a path where I I get to experience all my emotions. Great. There’s grief to that part of me that was able to sometimes function better, even though it was a short term game and a long term

Term cost. And so that, I don’t know, grief, let it be in the room with you. Let it

Angela Belford (21:33)
Mm-hmm.

Sami Kinnison (21:33)
let it be there. And sometimes notice if that’s the feeling that’s coming up. And there’s not like, well, here’s the the medicine you take to get rid of grief. Here’s the the rain dance you do and it goes away. Like, nope, it’s the process and the the cyclical nature of things. And so

I think it’s just important to call out that that is a big part of it as well. So, yeah.

Angela Belford (22:01)
Yep, grief and grace. That’s what you need to get through this.

Sami Kinnison (22:05)
I think if we could encourage people who are really struggling, because I want speak to the person right now, I want to speak to you listening. If you are feeling that tension that who you are becoming is not necessarily compatible with who you have been and how people expect you to be, notice that.

Give yourself the permission to be who you need to be and who you want to be. And you don’t have to fix all of the relationships around you. You don’t have to cut everybody off, bring everybody in, do all of the things. Notice what’s going inside of you and be kind to yourself. Be kind in this journey and in this time, in the transition, because it’s so important to.

seek better relationships and with yourself, with others, and to tend to this side of you that needs healing and needs growth. And so be kind along the process. I think that’s the encouragement I would want you to hear today.

Angela Belford (23:06)
Love it.

Sami Kinnison (23:08)
Thanks everybody for listening. We are so grateful for each and every one of you. Until next time, I hope you guys go be freaking awesome.