Sami Kinnison (00:20)
Welcome everyone to this week’s episode of the podcast. I’m one of your hosts, Sammy Kinnison, a communication coach who helps people say what they really want to say, even when they don’t feel like saying it.

Angela Belford (00:31)
My name is Angela Belvert. I’m an executive coach. And what I do is try to live a life that you would be interested in following my example. Because I think you should only hire coaches that live the way you want to live.

Sami Kinnison (00:46)
Wow, that’s a bold claim. I love that.

Angela Belford (00:48)
I’m

not saying I get it and write every day. I’m just saying this is what I endeavor to do. Hmm.

Sami Kinnison (00:55)
I like it. Today

we are going to be talking about a standard of excellence. We’re gonna be talking about what it means for you to define what is done, what does your quality work look like, and why does it matter to know what your standard of excellence is? I recently had a very lighthearted experience where we could talk about what.

What it means to have differing standards of excellence than somebody else. My seven-year-old son Henry is home this summer with us. So we are doing the combination of working from home and watching Henry. We have lots of different choice boards that he can choose different activities from, and every day he’s supposed to do some different things, and then he can play on screens and play video games. Yesterday in particular,

He this is why it’s very fresh on my mind. He says, Mom, I went and cleaned up all of the craft supplies that were in my bedroom. And I had we had flagged that morning, hey, you guys made a big mess with all of these crafting things. This needs to get cleaned up before you can play on screens today. And he said, Absolutely. And he goes, Mom, I cleaned up all of the craft supplies. And I said, Okay, sounds great. I’ll go turn on, like put in the pin for you to watch on the screens. That night when we go to bed,

I’m like, Henry, what is this mess over here in your room? And he goes, That’s the clean pile of all of the crack supplies. Put them in a pile in the middle of my room. And you know, the pile’s kind of like three feet wide. I’m like, this is not what I would call clean. This is this is not the definition of done that I would have said. He’s like, but I spent time and I put them in a pile. And it was like, that is.

Anyway, we had to have a conversation about how what he perceived done to be and a standard of excellence was not what I would define as done. And there were gonna be anyway, we had some consequences for misleading, if you will, and being like putting things in a pile, not putting things back where he knew where they went. He knew where they go, he got them out from that spot. Not putting them back is definitely not what I would define as clean. And as a parent who’s been watching your kid all summer, I’m like, dude.

Dude, dude, these loopholes that you continue to try to find are starting to drive me crazy. So standard of excellence is a really good thing to define. Take it away, Angela, before I get too worked up.

Angela Belford (03:29)
Well, so we

went look here’s the slide I didn’t think we were sliding down. No, it’s fun. Because in addition to standard of excellence with our the work that we do, I also it can be in how we present ourselves to the world. It can be how we treat other people.

It can be how we interact in relationships. My favorite is I have a friend who was raised old Money Dallas. I mean old Money Dallas and and she often says, That’s just not how you do it. And I have taken to telling her, well, in the trailer park, this absolutely is how we did it. Because the way she believes

A table should be set, the way she believes we should serve food, the way we should take care of food that has been sitting out on a buffet. Like the list is long of the way of the things, and we tease her about it, but she’s like, This is how it is. And I go, listen, here’s the thing: is this is your house, and you can absolutely say this is the standard of excellence in my home. When I invite people, this is my level of hospitality that I want to offer, and you’re allowed to set that. However

I want you to be aware that you are also judging other people when you say it like this is just how it’s done. And especially when we raise adult children, and then their in-laws do it different, and and and you have to like reconcile, like that’s not how we did it. And that could be everything from I have a friend that watches movies all of Christmas break.

And somebody else who’s like, if you watch movies you are not spending time together and we only play games And if you do it the other way it’s wrong. And it’s not true.

Sami Kinnison (05:30)
What’s interesting is that I absolutely know that one of the things that I do with my kids is I do this is just how it’s done. And and I I’m am I creating monsters? Like I don’t know. There are certain things where it will be I am teaching them the norms of my family.

Angela Belford (05:46)
No. No. No, because you are teaching them the norms of your family. Th this is how it works in our family.

Sami Kinnison (05:53)
And there are certain things where it’s like when you finish dinner, if you are done eating.

You need to take your plate to the place that it goes and put it away. So sometimes that is on the counter above the dishwasher because the dishwasher is full of clean dishes and I don’t want them putting their dirty dish in the dishwasher. Sometimes that is in the dishwasher. But when you’re done eating, you put your plate away. This is just how it is done. This is what we do.

And and there are times where when they’ll be like, well, why do we do that? I’m like, this is just what we do. This is how it is to be a human, to take care of our things, and to exist in our house. And so there are definitely things that I am aware my children one day are gonna have to reconcile when they join their life with somebody else’s. If they join their life with somebody else’s, that they do things in a different way. But I I also have to like I’m struggling because I’m like, no, I have to teach these tiny humans

Angela Belford (06:46)
Yes.

Sami Kinnison (06:46)
what it means to be a polite human. And

Angela Belford (06:49)
Agree.

Sami Kinnison (06:50)
Sometimes that means

Angela Belford (06:50)
A hundred percent.

Sami Kinnison (06:51)
following the norms of our house. And and I also, you know, there’s certain things that I we we try not to put on errors and whatnot, but it is about taking care of our spaces, taking care of ourselves. Why do we brush our teeth? Because this is what we do. We have to take care of our teeth. This is just what we do. This is the way it’s done, is you brush your teeth every day. So I don’t know. It’s good and

Angela Belford (07:16)
No, I think

Sami Kinnison (07:16)
I’m using it right now, and I hope I’m using it.

Angela Belford (07:19)
Well, because

if you were to say if you were to say the

Sami Kinnison (07:20)
wielding the responsibility the power responsibly.

Angela Belford (07:23)
whole sentence, the whole paragraph, this is just what is done in our household to have peace and harmony in our household because I refuse to be your maid. Right? Like I know of someone reluctant to say who because

Sami Kinnison (07:40)
Wow, that got real anonymous.

Angela Belford (07:42)
I don’t want to like anyway, and they would not

they they didn’t believe in busting their table and they didn’t believe and I say bust their table like at a restaurant, even if you were at a restaurant that that’s what you do. they didn’t like to put their cart back, anything like that, because they’re and what they would say is, I don’t want to take that person’s job. That’s someone’s job to do that. What’s interesting is that they had live in house they had help their house daily.

housekeeping help and so they did not wash the dishes because that would be taking someone’s job. And I find that that person came across as very entitled and very much like

I just didn’t appreciate the way they they kind of acted in the world. And there were times where I would like where I would just tidy up the dishes and we would be running out and I it was like, don’t worry about it. That’s what this person is for, is to help us with those things. I still want to be kind. I have someone that c cleans my house once a month. I’m still kind to them about how I do that. And so for me it’s about like my the standards of of living in

our community, this is how I prefer. I it’s important for me to treat people with kindness and consideration. I want to be considerate of other people’s feelings. That doesn’t mean that their feelings override everything that I say. That’s important.

Sami Kinnison (09:15)
Yeah.

Angela Belford (09:16)
That doesn’t mean that my my opinion or feelings are less than, it just means I am going to be considerate of others.

Sami Kinnison (09:24)
So I ca I can’t let this go unaddressed. I’m just gonna like throw it out there and then we can keep going. If you do not put your cart away in the cart corral, that is a problem. Don’t don’t be that person. There can be a person whose job it is to take the carts from the cart corral back to the store. Put your cart in the cart corral. I could go on for a long while.

Angela Belford (09:45)
What are you, animals?

Sami Kinnison (09:47)
I could go on for a long while about my feelings about this, and I don’t wanna be too judgmental and I apologize like

Who I struggle with that one.

Angela Belford (09:53)
No. Because

you believe it’s important to take good care of resources, and when people leave carts out, then they can hit other people’s cars and that can damage their resources. And so you were saying as a collective body of humanity, when we all are participating in this economy, then this is a way that you are being respectful of other people’s property.

Sami Kinnison (10:15)
Yes.

I really have to move on or else I will get like fiery. That is like one of the things that like drives me nuts. I wanna take people for interviews and I wanna you people like, I wanna see how they treat the waiter or the wait staff at the restaurant. I wanna see what they do with the cart at the cart corral. I wanna know.

Angela Belford (10:35)
I do think that is that next one is a good one though, how people treat servers.

Sami Kinnison (10:40)
wait,

yes. So, but to to zoom back to standard of excellence, why is it important? Why do you think it’s important for us to have our own standard of excellence? Like what’s the point? Can’t we just go with the societal this is how we do things, or this is the way it’s done?

Angela Belford (11:01)
Well, number one, there’s everybody gets to define that, right? So if you grow up in a trailer park or you grow up in Old Money Dallas, I promise they’re very different standards of excellence.

Sami Kinnison (11:08)
Right.

Angela Belford (11:09)
and so I think that defining our own standard of excellence helps us to have alignment so that we live in alignment with our own character. And it’s an intentional living. So much of what we talk about on Be Freaking Awesome is about living intentionally. And so what I

would say is that, I mean the hot take is that the antidote to perfectionism is to establish your standard of excellence because when I work with people who struggle with perfectionism, they think that I I want to embrace mediocrity. I’m like, no, I don’t want to embrace embrace mediocrity. A standard of excellence helps you define a line and define success. Perfectionism, that line will move and move and move and move and move based on whether or not you’re having a good day or a bad day.

And and it will be very inconsistent. And so I think it helps you to be a more well rounded human. It helps you to be a it helps you live in peace with yourself and with others.

Sami Kinnison (12:16)
I think it can be part of the reason why people struggle with that concept of excellence versus mediocrity. There’s an element that when perfectionism is an addiction for you, engaging in any amount of well, this is a standard can feel like a slippery slope to the standard can move to perfect. It is a like, you know, if you’re

Your day one sober from perfectionism, you might have to find somebody else’s standard of excellence to live up to versus your own. You might have to let it be an object, like a third-party, a more objective point of view. As you go on, you will be able to say, no, this is what I’m comfortable with bringing forward. And you will as you start to learn, you know, my best effort as opposed to perfect.

And truly, what does that mean, my best effort? Because there are times where I on my journey will be like, well, I could have put in more effort. I could have done more. I could have sacrificed other things to have made a more perfect product or or outcome. I accept that I’m willing, I I I I accept the investment of time, energy, resources that I put into something, even if it is not quote perfect. And that’s only because I’ve been on the journey for so long.

Angela Belford (13:42)
Yeah, so I don’t I don’t wanna make myself to be a paragon of virtue because I have some areas that I’m still a little struggling with this a little bit. I cannot figure out why some of the time I when I am sending an email, I literally had an email in the last two weeks where I was inviting a large group of people to something and the subject line said one date, and then the date in the body said the other date. And I’m like, is this an ADD function?

And this is not the first time it’s happened. As a matter of fact, it’s happened with that same group of people a couple of times to the point that they are some people who are on their perfectionism journey are I would say they’re not on their perfectionism journey. They still embrace perfectionism, are are questioning my credibility because I can’t get this date thing right. And and I’m trying to sort out what to do with it. You know what I mean? Like

Like, well be more careful. Like, yeah. And in that moment I thought I was being careful. And so I do have to sort that out because I absolutely do not want I’m not trying to embrace mediocrity. I really am not. but this has happened and and so I’m I’m trying to like put systems in place and I’m trying to like I’ve asked different people to like

Hey, when I’m sending out a big email to 1200 people, will you check it for me? I did have another person check it and they missed it as well. And and so at some point I have to go, like, right, like we’re humans. We’re

Sami Kinnison (15:18)
Mm.

Angela Belford (15:18)
we’re still humans. Contrast that with the Belford group. I’ve had pushback from from staff members, especially interns.

before when they were starting and they would produce something and I was like, no. and I would reject it and they would have to do it again. And one of them, my favorite thing they said, they said to a coworker is they were like, She didn’t even share it with the client. The client might have approved that. And I go, yeah, the client would have approved that. The client don’t pay an agency rate though for their own standard of excellence.

They pay agency rate for my standard of excellence. I say, as a matter of fact, like you can absolutely hire someone cheaper to do some of the work that we do at the Belford group, but you are working on their standard of excellence. You you then have to hold the standard of excellence. That means you’re

Sami Kinnison (16:11)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Belford (16:11)
having to edit them and you have to and that’s not to say we don’t make mistakes from time to time,

Sami Kinnison (16:15)
Sure.

Angela Belford (16:16)
but like from a design perspective, you aren’t having to go back and push back and say, this is not

This does not meet my design standards. And so

Sami Kinnison (16:28)
Also, sometimes I think by having a standard of excellence, standard of excellence, not perfection, there are times this is really easy to articulate with the type of work the Velvert Group does because it there’s like a an end product, a done defined definition of done. There was an intern who was working on a graphics project for a client, and suddenly they are 14 hours in of time on this singular project, and they’re like, no, I’m not done.

I’m maybe about halfway through. And it was like, your standard of excellence has got to adjust. And sure, this is gonna be the most perfectly aligned cookbook that’s ever been designed ever. And at a certain point, your perfection on this alignment is not worth the the

Angela Belford (17:18)
Mm.

Sami Kinnison (17:19)
time spent on it. And so there has to be a give to say, like.

You could have made it less perfect and it would still have been a quality product to deliver. And as a business owner and somebody who’s managing all of the budget and things, it’s a it’s recognizing, no, no, no, no, no. You you could have spent 30 hours on this project. It was budgeted to take four. And you have now blown a different standard of excellence. And what would

Angela Belford (17:49)
Right.

Sami Kinnison (17:50)
have happened if you would have spent four hours on this project?

Could you still come up with something that was 80% as good as the thing you did 30 hours on? I remember encouraging one of our teammates that I was like, if an additional hour on your project is only going to improve it by like one to 10%, that hour is not worth it. If the additional hour is going to improve it by 10, 20, 50%, that hour is worth it. Like if you could make that much of a difference, and getting that kind of perspective was always really helpful for her to say,

What when is done and perfect? What’s the the balance

Angela Belford (18:27)
Right.

Sami Kinnison (18:28)
between those things that it’s good enough? And you know, because you could spend hours tweaking something and tweaking something and tweaking something. This is all of us. You have a business plan in you, and it it just needs a little bit more. It just needs something else. I have a book and it’s almost done. It’s almost ready. You gotta hit a certain point where good is good enough. There are very well-known published authors who ship books that have typos.

Even if they have full big teams that are checking for typos, it is not the end of the world to have a mistake in something. And that doesn’t have to mean that you’re not excellent at what you do.

Angela Belford (19:07)
And contrast that with when I have a standard of excellence for the people who work for me, and basically at the Belford group, your job is to make sure that the promises I make are delivered upon. And that if I promise a standard of excellence that you could deliver. And I know that there are a ton of people that are like, I could never fire someone. I don’t care that this person this person’s been here forever and they don’t produce and they don’t produce the quality that they need.

And I just I I do not share that same sentiment. Now it could be that I just I you know some of my abandonment issues cause it me to not have to, you know, make attachments as easily. I don’t know. But I absolutely believe in systematizing things, standardizing things, creating checklists that says, like I have said to a longtime employee, actually recently, I was like, this should never have gotten to me.

Sami Kinnison (20:04)
Mm.

Angela Belford (20:04)
Like I should be catching minor things. Like you need to create a checklist because this is a mess and I shouldn’t be wasting my time. You have coworkers that that should catch this before I before it gets to me. And so I

Sami Kinnison (20:19)
Right.

Angela Belford (20:20)
absolutely do high have a very high standard of excellence for my staff. And I specify that. I try really hard not to move the the goalpost for them.

I tr now I do from time to time say, Okay, that was good, but now we’re gonna go and we’re gonna h hold to an even higher bar, an even higher standard. In the day of AI, like we have to be editing our processes, we have to be pushing harder to be able to still compete in this marketplace.

Sami Kinnison (20:49)
And I think that there is also like learning that you make a lot of space for. So while I did make the point about the person who took 30 hours on a project that should have taken four, you have a a vision that you can see, I know that this kind of task, the first time somebody does it, it’s gonna take them might take them six hours. I know the second time they do it, it’ll take them four hours. And I know by the time they’re doing it, the twelfth time, it’s gonna take them 30 minute stops. And you are willing

Angela Belford (21:14)
Okay.

Sami Kinnison (21:15)
to do that investment for the person to take the time.

To develop their skills to get to the point that they can do the same work at that high quality quicker. And so just to encourage, like, this is all a process, and your your standards might change over time and what you’re willing to do and how you’re willing to produce something, especially in a work setting, as you learn more, you’re gonna get better. Hopefully, that’s the goal. I go ahead.

Angela Belford (21:44)
One

one of the things that drives my standard of excellence is that I have a very high value of being a woman of my word. And so I am careful about the promises that I make and what I can deliver. And I recently had a situation where someone was like, Well, I told you to do this thing and I have asked you repeatedly to do this thing. It was a volunteer situation. And I was like, I I didn’t agree to that.

What I said was that I’m interested in helping get this started. I’m not interested in and they wanted to dictate to me all the things that they believed that it meant for me to help out with this thing. In volunteer roles, this gets real tricky because y I mean, technically we work in an at will state, so people can quit their jobs too. So it’s

Not just that, people can get divorced, people can excommunicate from their parents, all the things, right? Like so there’s not as much control as we think. But specifically in in a volunteer, it’s really obvious. I was like, I’m I never agreed to do all of those things that you wanted me to do. And so for you to be disappointed, that is unfortunate. But I didn’t I didn’t promise you that I would do those things.

You need to do this. And I’m like, I don’t know if I have time to do that. And and maybe I could have been more like emphatic. You can you can’t tell me what to do. but I was like, I will get to that after I’m finished with a couple of these projects. I had somebody else and a different volunteer that was like, we need to do blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, I will put that on my list. I allocate X number of hours, a certain number of hours every month. So therefore it looks like I’ll get to your project on a volunteer basis three months from now.

You want it done sooner, you may have to find somebody else that’s gonna volunteer. Or they will say, We’re gonna find another volunteer. Now you have to train them and you have to be their backup and you have and I’m like, No, you’ve just created more work for me. No, thank you. If you don’t know how to do the task, then you don’t also get to dictate to me how I work. Now, if you want to

Find somebody that is legitimately skilled in that area, I will absolutely work with them. But it was like training somebody and and I trained three people and I’m like, I’m not doing this anymore. Like you either

Sami Kinnison (24:06)
Right.

Angela Belford (24:06)
learn how to do it and you train them, or you need to stop and you’re gonna have to just tolerate my ability to be imperfect, tolerate my ability to be a real human in these scenarios. And so I think when we’re on our perfectionism journey and haven’t really embraced that.

Our tolerance for other people’s standard of excellence can cause some conflict.

Sami Kinnison (24:33)
It does. Can I talk about a different area where I think your standard of excellence doesn’t necessarily need to apply? When you are learning to do things for fun, I

Angela Belford (24:45)
Mm.

Sami Kinnison (24:46)
think you should throw your standard of excellence out the window. Because if you can

Angela Belford (24:51)
Wait, give it an

example. What do you mean?

Sami Kinnison (24:55)
I want to learn embroidery because I think it’s fun and I think it’s a way that I can do something crafty, I can produce, I don’t want to do it to make money, I want to do it to do something. My job does not actually require me to do anything with my hands. I talk with my hands, it does not require me to talk with my hands. I find that finding a way to use my hands to do something, to make something, is really relaxing for me.

If I embrace and embark on my embroidery journey and I am only willing to produce things up to this level, the standard of excellence, I am not accomplishing my goal of finding something fun and stress-free and enjoyable to do because I’m trying to reach a level of perfection. If you’re watching the video of this, you can see behind me I have like an embroidery hoop with our podcast logo on it.

I did hand embroider our podcast logo onto a I embroidered that. I I put it pretty far away so that you can’t look close at it. Cause there’s not, it is not up to the standard of excellence of what would be nice. And from a distance, you literally can’t even tell. It looks gorgeous. I have no problem with it. When you are finding balance and you are doing things that are not.

You not everything in your life has to be productive, honestly. Like it does not have to produce something. And so there are times where I think this can go too far when you’re like, no, no, everything I do in my life must be excellent. And it’s like, no, I want to be excellent at spending time with my kids. I want and that means not being perfect at things. I want to

be excellent at moving my body and that means that I move my body in ways that might look dumb and I don’t have to be the best at anything to move my body well. And so I think that like sometimes that definition of and maybe that is, it’s the definition of excellent is is dumb, is I moved my body. I did something with my hands and and that can be good even if it is not quote excellent by anybody else’s standards. And so

Volunteers is a really great place to consider where are you overdoing your standards, your own personal leisure time and relaxation, where are you overdoing your standards and whatnot? So those are my thoughts on that.

Angela Belford (27:36)
Sorry, giggled in the middle of that because I remember one time when you were playing Pretend and one of your kids told you you were doing it wrong. And I can’t remember if it was like

Sami Kinnison (27:43)
my gosh, it drives me so crazy.

Angela Belford (27:46)
cooking something or tea partying something or something. And they were like, You’re doing it wrong, Mom. And it made me laugh so hard. Because it made you so mad.

Sami Kinnison (27:55)
I will say I s I struggle

with pretend play because I apparently don’t know how to do it right. And I’m like, guys, I have been pretending longer than you were even a speck in your mother’s eye. Like, I don’t know. And so like I I it does drive me crazy when my kids say I’m pretending wrong. And I’m like

Angela Belford (28:14)
You’re like, I

pretended from birth to twelve, at least, and you are not twelve yet. So until you are at least twelve, you cannot tell me that I don’t know how to pretend.

Sami Kinnison (28:23)
Well, and then it’ll be like, I did

exactly what you told me to do. I I I didn’t even do it my way. I did it your way. And what am I doing wrong? Is very difficult whenever I don’t fulfill their standard of excellence and their instructions are like,

Angela Belford (28:38)
Every time.

Sami Kinnison (28:39)
do it better, mom. And I’m like, I don’t.

Angela Belford (28:42)
Which is

actually a great like I mean it it’s such a good metaphor for how people are on like

Sami Kinnison (28:47)
Ugh They are

Angela Belford (28:49)
especially in volunteer life and it’s so funny because you have all these nonprofits that will lament to me now, like, We can’t get volunteers. That’s cause you’re a jerk about it. Like you you

Sami Kinnison (28:58)
Mm-hmm.

Angela Belford (28:59)
have to be kind about l about how people volunteer. And they may not do it to your standards. And guess what? It I I see this even with people like delegating. I mean, my gosh, my husband

Sweet, sweet man. And he would be like, Well, I tried to show them how to do it. I tried to show the kids how to load the dishwasher and it didn’t work. I tried to show the employee how to do this thing and it didn’t work. And I’m like, Yeah, the first couple of times they’re gonna get it 80%. But then when they get it 90%, and then when they get it 95%, maybe they’ll never get it to the same level that you will, but yeah, well, they will in 27 years, and then you will have 27 years more experience, right? And so I

Sami Kinnison (29:38)
Right.

Angela Belford (29:38)
think that that’s the

The challenge. I see this with moms too, like, their kid won’t do it right the first time, and so they just keep doing it for I’m like, how do you think they’re gonna get the the ability to do it? So I think we have to be careful in our standard of excellence that we’re not projecting it on others. Maybe standard of excellence you can project if you’re like in an employment situation. but often people aren’t doing employ excellence, they’re doing perfection.

Sami Kinnison (30:04)
And if you’re in an employment situation and you are not communicating your expectations clearly, but then you’re mad that people aren’t doing it your way

Angela Belford (30:12)
Thank you.

Sami Kinnison (30:13)
or correct, at a certain point, you gotta look at yourself to say, what can I do? If I really need it done at this level, what can I do or provide to give them the tools and the resources to per to perform at this level? And I think that there’s a lot of people who are like, I just expected them to do better.

A tool that we can leave you all with is something that I recently read about again in a Brene Brown book, and I I know the concept is around a lot, but define what done is. So when you’re

Angela Belford (30:46)
Mm-hmm.

Sami Kinnison (30:46)
giving somebody a task, when I’m asking Henry to clean up the craft supplies in his room, define what done looks like. Say done looks like all of these craft supplies put back in the place that they belong in the closet, in the craft closet.

Not just on the floor, not just in the closet, in the place that they belong. Neatly and orderly. Define what done is. Let them paint the picture of what this project will look like at the end, what it is that you’re looking for. I want you to go do a rundown of all of your clients. This is an office reference. Define what done is. Say a rundown should be a list of all your clients and the status of where they are. And then you won’t be like Jim wondering what a rundown is for a whole week of an episode. So.

Angela, any last thoughts for our people? Wrap up closing remarks?

Angela Belford (31:37)
Yeah, I just I think that this leads us into our next episode where we’re gonna talk about people pleasing and I think it’s a a very slippery slope and we are going to kind of unpack that a little bit more. recently kind of asked, is all people pleasing bad? And so I think that this idea of standard of excellence really does help us.

to understand I think about how I wanna sleep at night. Am I acting in alignment with my character and and not being it helps me to be less worried about what others think of me.

Sami Kinnison (32:18)
I love it. Thank you all for listening and for being with us on the journey. Until next time, we hope you guys go be freaking awesome.