Sami Kinnison (00:29)
Welcome everyone to this week’s episode of the podcast. I’m one of your hosts, Sami Kinnison, a communication coach who wants to help make communication easier and more natural for you.

Angela Belford (00:40)
My name is Angela Belford. I’m your other co-host and I’m an executive coach who helps people feel as confident on the inside as they look on the outside.

Sami Kinnison (00:52)
We are a mother and daughter duo who are here to talk about some of the big questions of what makes life freaking awesome. And Angela, I want to take a moment to actually zoom out a second to say you published a book earlier this year, and I think

Angela Belford (01:09)
Dun da da da.

Sami Kinnison (01:10)
it’s fun to do like a little check-in with you. This is your third book to publish. How are you feeling? What has been the response? Where are you at within this book?

process because it’s not just you know, sometimes it feels like, you know, you get up to the marathon kickoff and really writing the whole book is the marathon. Anyway, tell us more about how things are going now after the Invisible Edge has come out.

Angela Belford (01:37)
Yeah, so for starters, I would say that I say to people all the time, when you get ready to write a book, you’ve got to figure out what’s your what’s the point, what’s the purpose of it. I love to share my learning journey. Obviously, that’s why we have a podcast. We are learning things and we want to share that and we want to make an impact. At the end of the day, that’s the bottom line is that I love to make an impact. Specifically with the invisible edge.

I c I would say you probably had two goals. Number one, the the higher level goal, if you will, was was to make the content in traveling edge or I’m sorry, in traveling light more accessible. Because there were people that read it and said, Man, this really helped me a lot. It was just a lot. You had to work really hard to get through it. And so I wanted to make that content more accessible and as a reminder

Traveling Light, the best compliment I’d ever got was this is like a fifth or sixth grade version of the Body Keep Score. So if you’ve ever tried to read the Body Keep Score, which number one, it took me a year and a half to get through that. So hang in there, keep going. it’s a PhD level of somatic

Sami Kinnison (02:50)
It’s like a PhD level within this metaphor.

Angela Belford (02:55)
processing and how your body absolutely and so the

So the the content is very much rooted in the ideas. So I tried to break it down and make it very simple. And yet it was still hard to some

people said it’s not taught in our culture.

Sami Kinnison (03:12)
Why do you think it’s hard? Do you have any thoughts or theories?

Angela Belford (03:16)
Yeah, yeah, it’s not taught in our culture very well. We are we’re coming out of the whole history of the of the United States from a Puritan work ethic concept is like quit crying, I’ll give you a quick.

Something to cry about. I mean you have you have you have stuff like in the nineteen fifties, as late as the nineteen fifties, that was not very long ago in human history wise. we have Bulby that was studying how British parents thought that you should take care of your child when they were in the hospital, and that was to come and visit them for one hour every week. Right? Like that was normal. That was what was normal.

And and we were taught to c not to coddle people. And so as a coping skill, we had to just push all this stuff down. And and your body’s like, Well, this is dangerous. my job is to keep you alive, so I have to track everything that’s dangerous. And and where do I track it? I don’t track it all in my brain. I track it your body. You know, that idea of like I just felt it my gut. It’s legitimate. And there is so much scientific research to show the connection.

between our gut, like our gut actually produces a lot more of our hormones that we need for brain health. Our brain doesn’t produce hormones. Our brain absorbs hormones. They send the message to your body to create hormones, but like it’s not a it’s not a hormone secretion organ, right? Like it’s a processing organ. And so if it may if you think about the mechanics of it, it actually makes sense that it’s all in your body. We just

Have in our Western culture we’ve divided it out.

Sami Kinnison (04:59)
Can I take us on a tangent for a moment? Because I just think it’s

Angela Belford (05:02)
I’d love it.

Sami Kinnison (05:03)
interesting. You we

Angela Belford (05:05)
Mm-hmm.

Sami Kinnison (05:06)
talk about, you know, in the 50s, it’s good to, you know, visit your kid for once a one hour once a week in the hospital. I know of folks who might be older or more traditional, that there is this like, you’re, you’re caring too much for your kids, you’re doing too much for them, this perspective that, like,

Your kids don’t need attachment. We survived. We’re fine. Like, have we pendulum swung? Have we gone too far in like helicoptering and and overdoing it? Or or maybe not? Or maybe this is actually what humans need. And we’ll find out at that when this generation is old enough to like start to see the results of that. Will this be good for health and longevity and relationships? I don’t know. What are your thoughts?

Obviously it’s all hypothetical.

Angela Belford (05:56)
Yeah, so I

I yeah. I think in I mean obvious typically there’s a pendulum swing, you know, when you have one extreme, we we often go to the other before we land in the middle. So there is the potential of that, but though but I think more important than that is that the they have no models. So and and we

Often are responding and parenting and living our lives out of our wounds, right? And so if our wound was abandonment and we didn’t have anybody to care for us, then we are going to do something that is the opposite of that. And so sometimes we do overdo it, you know, and so I think there’s a lot of different reasons, but

I literally said to someone recently, I said, Is it possible that your hurt self perceived their efforts in a different way? And they were like, Whoa, or I said, Your wounded self. And they were like, Wait, what? Hold on a minute. Like, and the idea that they could have perceived someone’s actions differently if they had healed their wound was like a

brand new concept to them. They were like, hold on, I’m gonna need you to slow down. Like say that sentence very slowly. Like hurt people, hurt

Sami Kinnison (07:23)
Yeah, I feel like you and I are like, Yeah, yeah, of course. Hurt people, hurt people. Like what’s next?

Angela Belford (07:29)
people, right? We say this all the time. And so I’m like, no, no, but like when we are hurt, we hear things through broken headphones and we see things through s sunglasses. And I literally said to her, I said, you know, have you ever had a pair of sunglasses that was like pink and you look at the sky and the sky is purple.

Right, or you have brown filter or you have there are different colors of sunglasses that I don’t like because I don’t like how it changes how I see the world.

Sami Kinnison (07:57)
I distinctly remember in college getting to be a part of a group of friends. Our one of our friends was colorblind. We all pitched in to get him glasses and then watched him sit down and sob as he looked up at the sky and at the trees. Because for the very first time in his life, he got to see the vibrancy of color. And he had never before seen that. And he didn’t,

Angela Belford (08:17)
Yeah. Never.

Sami Kinnison (08:19)
for a long time, didn’t know. It’s hard to describe.

Angela Belford (08:21)
He didn’t even know

he didn’t even know.

Sami Kinnison (08:23)
He didn’t know that he wasn’t seeing

colors in the way that everybody else was. Yeah.

Angela Belford (08:27)
This is all he’s ever known. And so

it would so that’s what I explained to her is I was like, when you were hurt, you put on glasses and then you filtered everything that this person did to you through that lens.

Sami Kinnison (08:42)
Yeah.

Angela Belford (08:43)
And and am I defending the actions that they did? No. No. And and I told her, I said, more importantly to me is the trajectory of where they’re headed. Where is this

this person you’re in relationship with, where are they heading? Are they wanting to improve themselves? Are they wanting to be better? Are they wanting to like I want to hurt you less? Like my goal is to hurt my husband less now than I did when we were in our twenties. You know, I w I want to rep have to repair less. I want to spend more time connecting. So I don’t know, maybe we are, you know, pendulum swing. and

maybe we

Sami Kinnison (09:23)
I think one of the

Angela Belford (09:24)
just aren’t

we are just working out of our wounds and maybe there is there’s an element of I can see the resilience that people develop as they feel very secure in their attachment.

Sami Kinnison (09:35)
Hmm.

So within your these these two books, because I do feel like Traveling Light and Invisible Edge are a little bit of like a pair because it’s it’s kind of the fiction, the nonfiction components of

Angela Belford (09:45)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Sami Kinnison (09:49)
the same source material, if you will.

Angela Belford (09:51)
Yep. Yep.

Sami Kinnison (09:53)
When people as you’re walking with people, as they’re starting to go through these beliefs and this work and unpacking the beliefs that they didn’t even know.

Angela Belford (10:04)
Mm-hmm.

Sami Kinnison (10:04)
I recently got to experience as I’m starting to help walk people through this as well. Somebody who was like, Yeah, I have it on the surface, I have no feelings about I’m not enough. I have no like brings up nothing in me. And it was interesting to see where at first what felt like, no, I actually don’t have any kind of response to that is actually a defense.

if you will, and like a a a complete detachment from the association.

Angela Belford (10:40)
Sometimes called dissociating, correct?

Sami Kinnison (10:40)
To like dissociation.

Yes. in the in the best of ways, I’m meaning this question in the best of ways, do you still encourage people to do the work even though there’s a chance for a pendulum swing that they might go from feeling nothing to feeling everything? Like, how do you navigate that part of the work?

Angela Belford (10:56)
my goodness. I

yeah, I here’s what’s interesting is that a couple years ago when I went to sorry, side tangent. When I went to get my certification in life coaching, it was not cheap. it was an investment and I was like, Well what if I change my mind? And my husband’s like, You have been pursuing this for a very long time because

I remember during what I call my nervous breakdown when I was twenty four and I couldn’t stop crying for about two weeks, ended up in therapy, and about halfway through that thirteen month experience, which you don’t know when you’re in it how long it’s

Sami Kinnison (11:37)
Sure.

Angela Belford (11:37)
gonna be, right? I remember saying to my therapist, I hate this a lot because before I didn’t feel I didn’t feel anything.

I was more capable. And he was like, you were a lot less flexible. You were a lot more rigid. Things had to be exactly your way. You’re a control freak. If you can believe I was more of a control freak than I am now. I’m on a journey. I was a complete blown-out perfectionist. Everything was about, you know, performing and and just surviving. And so that was absolutely how I d I was mad.

That I had to start feeling things because then I’m like, gosh, somebody hurt my feelings. I didn’t even know I had a feeling to be hurt. So that is, it is important to do the work. Here’s the other sweet thing is that fast forward, so that would have been in 1998. So fast forward to 2019, 2020, 2020. And I tell this story to I’m in marriage therapy at this point. And I

said to my marriage therapist that my first therapist, well he’s not a first, but anyway, Joe had told me that I had basically every time something hurt me when I was a child, I put a layer of concrete and a layer of concrete over my heart and a layer of concrete and a layer of concrete. And what he did is excavate my heart out of that concrete. And I will never forget Ryan looked at me and he said, I am so glad

That you encased your heart in concrete as a child. Like if you wouldn’t have, you would not be the person you are today. And it was the first time someone celebrated the coping skill that I had chosen because I’d always felt bad about that. I’d always felt bad about that I had numbed myself to that pain. And I’d always felt bad that it felt like that wasn’t the right thing to do. And he goes, if you wouldn’t have done that, your heart would not be able to be whole and intact now.

That’s not to say that those of you that didn’t encase your heart in concrete, that it’s not whole and intact, but he like it was the first time someone celebrated that I had chosen that coping skill and that that was good and it was okay

Sami Kinnison (14:00)
Yeah.

Angela Belford (14:01)
and it was the right thing. He said, Your family wasn’t safe. Your heart wasn’t safe. So I’m so proud of you for protecting yourself. But perhaps now you don’t need to protect yourself. Perhaps now, even though you’ve excavated your heart, like now you can reduce some of that protection.

so that you can be more wholehearted, so that you can make deeper connections, so that you can actually have deeper relationships. And for me, that is the reason we do the work. We don’t do the work so that we can accomplish something. We don’t do the work so we can have a successful business. One hundred percent we do the work so that we can have deep and fulfilling relationships.

Sami Kinnison (14:40)
Hmm. I also think that within that deep and fulfilling relationships require risk. To your

Angela Belford (14:48)
Mm.

Sami Kinnison (14:48)
point, people are gonna hurt you. And they’re

Angela Belford (14:53)
They are.

Sami Kinnison (14:54)
sometimes it’s on purpose and sometimes it’s on accident. And and it’s if we want to choose the path where we can never be hurt, we will also never be connected, which is gonna

Angela Belford (15:06)
That’s correct.

Sami Kinnison (15:07)
cause its own kind of hurt.

If

we choose the path of staying connected and being in life with people, that is risking that somebody’s gonna hurt our feelings. I think it is worth the risk. It’s worth the risk. Even when the bad thing does happen, it’s still worth it.

Angela Belford (15:27)
Yes, because they are going to hurt their feelings, and I would say that on the on purpose hurting you, I don’t even know if it’s on purpose. It is out of their own woundedness, out of their own pain, out of their own protection that they are hurting you. It is it is often not there’s very few situations where it is malicious intent. It is so much more often that you are when someone hurts you, it is out of their own.

their own pain. And here’s the other thing that I have discovered in this work that is crazy. And this is what adds to our resilience is that when we do our work and when we get this healthy, then we’ve removed those glasses and we removed the lenses. And then what someone else says about me, I can legitimately, there are things that people would say to me that I swear five years ago would have crushed my soul. It would have felt horrible.

Because they were affirming a belief I had about myself. And when I’ve done my work and I can feel strong that I am enough, I have what it takes, I’m lovable. Then when somebody says something, I can be like, Wow, what does that say about them? And I am

Sami Kinnison (16:47)
I feel like

Angela Belford (16:47)
actually less likely to get hurt. I do get hurt from time to time. We I am still

Sami Kinnison (16:52)
Sure.

Angela Belford (16:52)
human.

But I feel like I have less opportunity to get hurt because I can recognize when it’s my issue, when it’s their issue.

Sami Kinnison (17:02)
My two responses are most often, it is on my best days, it is compassion to say, man, like the the deep beliefs and insecurities that this person must have are a lot. And on my worst days, it’s like annoyance. It’s like somebody else’s insecurities popping up in my direction. But even both of those things like aren’t about me. They’re still feelings, both compassion and annoyance. And that’s a feels like a much better

teeter totter than just judgment on myself or judgment on them or tearing myself down and things like that.

Angela Belford (17:41)
Absolutely. And my I think my deepest hurts now come from when I act outside of my own character, which I won’t I think we’re gonna get into next week. But it’s actually the pain I cause is

is harder for me to to to reconcile with because then I’m like, God, that is not how I want to show up in the world. And

Sami Kinnison (18:04)
Yeah.

Angela Belford (18:05)
so it is the love that’s the piece is that like

We go from numb too, I feel a lot. Like I I will cry in in situations, I will feel all the feels in situations that I don’t love to feel. I will still be triggered. And there’s a lot of resilience on the other side where sometimes I can look at people and just be like, Huh, I wonder what’s going on with them. So

Sami Kinnison (18:33)
Right.

Angela Belford (18:34)
it’s a process.

Sami Kinnison (18:35)
So then within the work of your book and and the things that are going on,

Angela Belford (18:40)
Yeah. Hmm.

Sami Kinnison (18:42)
what are you up to next?

Angela Belford (18:44)
Yeah, well what I was gonna say is that the second piece of my book is that on this one specifically, one of my longtime clients, coaching clients was like, I can’t read wait, read your new book. And I go, Hey, peek behind the curtain. The book is designed to sell coaching. So from that perspective, it is actually going very well because I have signed two new coaching clients just from them reading the book. And they were like, I need your help. So that’s the whole point of that book.

it’s not the whole point, but that is the behind the scenes that’s the business driver behind it. So I say all the time, it’s not likely I’ll get mil become a millionaire selling books, but I will make a giant impact. And in the name of I’m

Sami Kinnison (19:27)
You could become a millionaire selling coaching.

Angela Belford (19:31)
I could. yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. and that will be because of the number of people that I have an impact on, which leads me to what I’m doing next. And

I feel like I could turn this into a marketing rant for a second, but there is a there’s a common thing in in marketing, especially in coaching consulting spaces, that is like, okay, find what you want to do, and then you know, tell everybody and speak in their language. And honestly, I often am adding services based on people come to me with problems. Like I’m a paid problem solver. And so I have designed

This next iteration of our coaching program is called Epic Impact. those people that have been friends with me for a long time know that I actually have been playing this idea for about five or six years. I actually gave a a a keynote speech called Epic Impact about five years ago. So it’s been it’s been wilding around in my brain for a little while, but the way it’s going to be brought to life finally.

is in a mastermind setting and it is helping business owners and leaders become known for what they know. And it is a direct result of the coaching that I have done where people come to me and often if you need public speaking, if you want to be a better public speaker, it’s because you are trying to be known for what you know. If you are trying to write a book, it’s because you want to be known for what you know. And so this is going to be a 10-month program. Here’s what I love, love, love about this program.

Is that it gets to combine all of the elements of my coaching and marketing, especially public speaking coaching, all together, because by having an opportunity to meet monthly in a group setting, we’re actually going to be able to practice giving your pitch, giving your keynote, giving your your topic. We are going to spend some time mining

Your brain four stories because I believe deeply in my soul that if you are especially a coach or consultant, if you’re an author, what you can be known for is the forest of pain and fear that you macheted your way through. So you experienced things in your life, and those of you that are corporate, you know you’ve

You fought the corporate jungle, right? But this is probably more a little more geared toward entrepreneurs, but but you have you have overcome things. You have obstacles. When people ask you to speak or they ask you to consult with them, it’s because, hey, you’ve solved some problems that I don’t want to have to experience. Sami used to say, like, teach me everything and I’ll get some new skinned knees, right? And so the idea is that we are going to take people through a process.

I’ve already taken a couple of clients through this one-on-one, so we’re gonna move it to a group. We’re going to mine your story for or mine your life for stories of things that you’ve overcome. We’re going to shape that into who you can make an impact on and who your community is. We’re going to help you build and develop your community, just so we’re clear. I don’t think we talk about this enough unless you’re, you know, a big follower of Pat Flynn. but

Your audience are people that listen to you and your community are people that resonate deeply with what you have, what you’re offering. you know, Pat Flynn has a book called Super Fans, and he says you don’t actually need millions of people. If you had a hundred people that bought everything you sold, then you would probably have do a pretty nice business. and you would be deeply fulfilled, right? Like you would most people, most offers, if you had about a hundred people.

and and you can they say that we can maintain about 150 relationships. So that’s why I love that that that metric. Anyway, we’ll help create the offer, validate the offer, and it’ll be 10 months of you’ll also get once a month, you’ll get one-on-one coaching as well, in addition to the group mastermind setting. So it won’t just be this is what Angela thinks, but you’ll also have another group of people that are going through the cohort. By the end you’ll also end up with the beginnings of a manuscript if you want to publish a book.

Sami Kinnison (24:08)
So this is people who want to make an epic impact, people who are

Angela Belford (24:13)
It’s people that want

Sami Kinnison (24:15)
looking who are willing to face the complexities of feeling your feelings and the wholeheartedness of life, and who want to continue to drive that forward in a way that impacts others, not in a way that just like, cool, I’m working on my own journey. But I think that there’s there are some people who are drawn towards.

How do I share this story? How do I get this out there? How do I make sure that the lessons I’ve learned aren’t quote wasted? It’s not the right thing, but you know, it’s put to good use. And combining your business acumen, your marketing expertise, and your willingness to look at the hard things and to ask people really hard questions that they may not want to answer about their emotions and feelings and beliefs

Angela Belford (25:04)
Mm-hmm.

Sami Kinnison (25:05)
into a program that

And we want to help people who are like-minded build their epic impact.

Angela Belford (25:13)
I think that the people I’ve talked to may not realize that they’re ready to make an epic impact. I think the people

Sami Kinnison (25:20)
yeah.

Angela Belford (25:21)
who are probably going to be interested in this program are saying, What’s next? They’re saying like, okay, I’ve spent 20 years building a business, doing corporate, I’ve spent 10 years. It doesn’t you don’t have to spend 20 years. I’m just saying the people that I’m talking to most often.

are like now what? What’s next? What’s act two? And so they may not be sure that they they haven’t they may say, I’ve always felt like I had a book in me. That that’s a great fit. But they may just be like, I want to, I want to do what’s next. I want to help other people kind of come come alongside. Cause at least one of the people that’s already indicated they want to do this.

They’ve built a successful business and are having a lot of fun mentoring younger people in that same industry that they work in. And so that may not feel like this big epic impact because they’re gonna serve eight to ten clients, but it’s a lovely, fulfilling way for to to pursue act two. And it leaves you opportunities and open doors. So you don’t have to be a coach. You could also be

a consultant. If you are wanting to mentor and work with and consult with people that are in your same industry, but you’re like, gosh, I don’t know what that looks like. I don’t know how to do all of that. I don’t know how to position myself. I don’t know what to call it. All of those things, that’s a this is a great opportunity for you.

Sami Kinnison (26:51)
I will kind of disagree with you in that even people who are asking what’s next, the people who would align best are the people who are like, I want to make an impact of some kind.

Angela Belford (27:02)
Indeed.

Sami Kinnison (27:03)
And I think even our friend who is mentoring, you know, eight to ten people, I still think that is an epic impact, even if it’s not thousands and millions of audience members. Like they, if you’re like, how do I make my next million dollars so I can go buy my

Golden throne to sit on at home and not do anything with it. I don’t know that’s impact. so like there is some element when you’re seeking success

Angela Belford (27:27)
Yes.

Sami Kinnison (27:27)
for your own success sake. one, let me let’s talk about your hidden beliefs and why we’re doing that. but two, I the people who are aligned with us are the ones who are wanting to make a difference in the world and make

Angela Belford (27:42)
Yes.

Sami Kinnison (27:42)
things better. So

Angela Belford (27:43)
Yes, it’s just we like to use big words like freaking and epic and so sometimes people think that it has to be this big superlative thing. And so yeah.

Sami Kinnison (27:54)
Sure. Fair

enough. If people want to learn more, what should they do?

Angela Belford (28:01)
they can go to our website B letter B freaking awesome dot com and yeah.

Sami Kinnison (28:09)
It’s great answer. You

can, I was like, we’d love to do a call. This is not something that people can just buy off a website page. This

Angela Belford (28:18)
Mm-hmm.

Sami Kinnison (28:18)
is something that it’s worth the conversation for us to say, is this the right fit? Is this something that

Angela Belford (28:23)
For sure.

Sami Kinnison (28:24)
you would work well with us? We would work well with you. it’s not an application based program, but there is a little bit of like, no, no, we should have a conversation first before we just jump right into 10 months together. So you can schedule a call from

Angela Belford (28:35)
Yeah, and the six

Sami Kinnison (28:37)
our website.

Angela Belford (28:39)
and the sixth session invisible edge coaching is a prereq, so you have to have gone through that six sessions to be able to fully participate in the program.

Sami Kinnison (28:51)
you can do that successions as you start the program.

Angela Belford (28:55)
Correct.

Sami Kinnison (28:55)
Yeah.

Angela Belford (28:56)
Yeah.

Sami Kinnison (28:59)
Anything else, any other last thoughts, Angela, before we wrap up this episode?

Angela Belford (29:03)
Mm, I mean, as far as if this is a like, how’s the book going? I already am feeling just a little bit of you know, book four is already niggling. because what I really want to break down, I’ve known for a while I wanted to talk about abandonment. which golly, can you just say how fun I’m at parties? Come on, feel your feelings, it’s okay to cry.

And now we’re gonna talk about abandonment issues. What I love is that I finally put it together to figure out that it is deeply about relationships. So I feel like we uncover those those six beliefs so that we can have deeper relationships.

Sami Kinnison (29:44)
We say we uncover those seven beliefs.

Angela Belford (29:46)
Did I say seven? Did I say six?

Sami Kinnison (29:48)
You said six.

Angela Belford (29:49)
Yep. Yep. So we we dig out and uncover those seven beliefs so that we can have deeper relationships.

Sami Kinnison (29:59)
I love it. Thanks everybody for listening. We are so grateful for each and every one of you and hope that you got something out of this. And if you ever have any questions or topics that you want us to address on the podcast, we would love to hear from you. You can send us an email. You can message us on any of our social media platforms. We are always tickled pink whenever we get to hear how people respond to these episodes. So thanks everyone so much for your time. And until next time, we hope you guys go be freaking awesome.