Sami Kinnison (00:20)
Welcome everyone to this week’s episode of the podcast. I’m one of your co-hosts, Sammy Kinnison, and I’m a communication coach who helps people to be freaking awesome.

Angela Belford (00:29)
I’m Angela Belford and I am an executive coach who is most often called when someone is working on a business problem that strategy won’t solve. So they want to get into the deeper issues that are maybe buried somatically, hidden patterns that they can’t see.

Sami Kinnison (00:48)
Today we are going to be talking about hopeful anticipation. I think that we’ve had a couple of episodes that have been about expectations versus agreements. We’ve talked about disappointment. We’ve talked about what is it like when you hit your goal and it’s not what you’ve wanted. We have a little bit of a theme this year where we’re kind of we’re unpacking this nugget and really dusting it off from all the sides. And so

Angela, when you think about hopeful anticipation, what is different about that than expectations and kind of helps set us up for the episode?

Angela Belford (01:30)
Yeah, well for starters I want to say that I believe that what I talk about in the drum that I beat so often is that mindset isn’t everything, positive thinking isn’t everything. And

Sometimes it really is. Mindset does help. Like when there’s nothing that’s like hidden patterns holding us back. We don’t have beliefs that are holding us back. Then now’s the time to choose positive thinking and to choose the right mindset. And so I use this I I really this hopeful anticipation has been a word that’s been I’ve been talking about things like marbles rolling around in my head, maybe because I went to the

the bar pinpoint a couple of times in a few months period where I watched pinball games and seeing how random and haphazard they seem to be, this has been like a marble rolling around in my head of sometimes things don’t work out the way you think they’re going to. And while yes, we have to wrestle with disappointment, I’m like, okay, well y’all all know I don’t love disappointment.

But part of the disappointment is because we’ve got expectations. And so what’s the alternative to that? And what I’ve what I’ve found is that figuring out that everything, really honestly believing, everything works out the way it’s supposed to in the end. It’s often not the way I thought it should. Sometimes I will say things like, ooh, I really love the Garth Brooks song. Sometimes, thank God.

For unanswered prayers. Right. I

I sometimes wish and want something to happen and then figure out the consequences of if I would have gotten what I wanted and it would have been real bad and unexpectedly bad. And so I also have enough faith perspective to know that like really things do ultimately work out. Even I’ve had several friends that have gone through breast cancer and when you talk to them and you’re like, man, what

What’s your what is your takeaway? What would what if what what can you share? What wisdom do you have? And they’re like, I would not wish this on anybody. And I wouldn’t change it because it has changed me. And in the midst of hard, knowing that we are becoming a different version of ourselves creates that idea of hopeful anticipation. And it’s to me just a really lovely antidote to disappointment. Because then

While sometimes I do need to sit and feel my disappointment, sometimes I can like shrug it off and go, Well, I don’t know why that didn’t work out. Wonder what’s next. And you know, I’ve lots of examples. I had a client that I would told them, I’m like, Hey, I know I was supposed to give you a proposal today, but I can’t figure out how to market for you. So I’m not gonna take a bunch of money and you get mad at me. He sent me four clients for the next year. In the next year, ’cause he’s like, She’ll tell you for real if your idea’s dumb.

I didn’t tell you your ideas dumb. And so I think there have been enough things that have worked out really in neat ways for me. I also have a practice that when I sign a client, I always go back and find and go, well, how did I meet them? How did that come to be? How did that come to be? How did that come to be? And signed a client this week. And I’m just like, man, did I sign them? Because and there were so many.

Pathways to that coming together. some of them were me bring ran making a random cold call, you know, eight years ago, so that her boss was willing to pay. Of course, if Angela Belford’s offering it, I guarantee you it will be quality. And so anyway, I think that’s probably why, but it’s just been a neat antidote to this season of wrestling with disappointment.

Sami Kinnison (05:40)
I want to, I don’t know, maybe drill in on the episode in a way I didn’t think it was going to. I don’t think it’s hopeful anticipation. I think it’s hope. I think that it is just the hope that this will work out in the way it’s supposed to. And I think that as somebody with less experience, I am pretty sure that all things are gonna work out the way that they’re supposed to.

But sometimes I don’t actually know. And sometimes I get really discouraged and frustrated and like I’m not sure what the path forward is. And I hope this works out. I hope that one day I will get to look back on this moment and say, my gosh, thank goodness for that moment. And even that can be just enough like attunement to say, I hope that this will work out, that it is.

It’s looking forward and it’s starting to prime myself for what are the things I’m looking for, as opposed to just looking at what I don’t have or what I didn’t get or what expectation was missed. It’s hoping that something good will come from it. Do you what do you think? Like is the anticipation part of it or is it it is just hope? Okay.

Angela Belford (06:56)
Me it is. For me

it is. there’s something a little bit passive about hope for me

obviously the reason why I didn’t just call this anticipation, but it was hopeful anticipation. I do want to be full of hope. I do want to be full of that that feeling that that things all things will work out, but I want I choose the mindset of looking.

For the good. Because I think sometimes if we don’t look for the good, then it could miss us. And and you have to then wait until you get a season of reflection and you look back and go, wow, three years ago that did that didn’t work out. I feel like it has heightened my awareness so that I’m looking around and I’m I’m I’m like on the lookout, like, where’s it at? I’m I’m searching for it. And it just it feels different. It also feels like

When people are like, well, the reason why you’re disappointed is because of expectation. And I’m like, well, yeah, because to me the lack of expectation has always felt like apathy.

Sami Kinnison (08:03)
Right.

Angela Belford (08:04)
And and now to have something different that is not just, I don’t know, for me, hope just feels it feels like it’s on this s pendulum swing and I want to keep I choose to keep going over to hopeful anticipation.

And and maybe that’s experience and I think it’s a choice. And and it takes a lot of it takes a lot of courage to choose that because man, when you are in hopeful anticipation and then you do get disappointed,

Sometimes it can take you out if it’s something really big. Like it’ll be like, Man, now I’m gonna go have to feel my disappointment for two days. I’m gonna go

and you know, be grumpy for two days. But so I’m not saying everything I’m always cheerful and happy about absolutely everything that happens. I but I am saying that this has been a better alternative for me.

Sami Kinnison (09:01)
It feels a little

bit like the middle it’s a middle ground. Cause I think that there’s the one side where like maybe you had an expectation and it was met and it felt great and wonderful. And then there’s the like and then you had something, an expectation, and it wasn’t met and it was disappointment. It’s the flow chart. So now once you go down below that one, you have a choice to stay in disappointment or to look for what what’s good can come of quote not getting what I wanted.

Or in any situation, like, oof, man, this is rough. Or what is it? What else could happen? I I find that there are things beyond what I could have imagined to have occurred. And and that is something that within hopeful anticipation, it’s it it’s hard to be like, what’s my goal for what’s gonna happen after this? It’s like, no, it’s being open to I have literally no idea.

the serendip and trusting in the serendipity and trusting in in the guiding that like things are going to to come of this. I also hold space at times that it might not be something for me. And and I accept that. And so there are occasionally I will be really excited about trying to like work with somebody as a client and it ends up not happening.

And then the next person that they go meet with, they work with, and it ends up being exactly what they needed. And it it then it wasn’t about me. It’s that that I was a path on their journey. I was the stop for them to learn something about themselves, to realize something, to to get into a better awareness. And it wasn’t about me necessarily accomplishing my expectation, but I got to be a character in their story to help get them to their destination. So even when I have hopeful anticipation.

Sometimes I get to see the ripple effects of things, sometimes I don’t. And and I and I do trust that that it is gonna work out, even if it is in a way that is far beyond my actual like perception and and realm where I get to see what’s going on. These are the the they work out the way that they’re supposed to, and it’ll be okay.

I’m not always able to maintain that same, like, I don’t know, lofty ideal. I think there are some times where I feel more, more toddler-esque and like, well, no, I wanted my way. And yeah, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know if there’s an exact answer to that. other than just time and and growth. Maybe if somebody else has ideas, few of ideas, but there are some times I can get really stuck.

In this is how I wanted it to work out. And I think about like my toddlers, they are very good at giving you good life reflection that they want things their way. My daughter, the other, it was a couple weeks ago now, was furious because we she had to come with me and Peter to his wellness appointment and he had to get vaccines, and she was furious at me that she did not also get shots. And like, I

I like didn’t I lost I was like, I don’t know how to reason with you and be compassionate for you right now. You are crying at me for 45 minutes. I wish I was exaggerating. It was 45 minutes because I didn’t let her get jabbed with a needle because she didn’t need anything. Like, I was just like, this is you just and and those kinds of moments occasionally, I’m like, this is how you act, Sammy. You act like

Somebody screaming for 45 minutes because you didn’t get to have the thing, but actually it wasn’t what you needed right now. It wasn’t it wouldn’t be good for you. It would cause but like it’s not what you needed. And okay, fine. I I get the perspective. I take the message, but just doesn’t it doesn’t change that I still act that way at times and I can’t quite be like, no, that’s okay. I kind of wanted that, but maybe this will work out better. However, so there you go.

Angela Belford (13:06)
Yeah, and

and I definitely I am not advocating for ignoring your feelings. Please do not hear me to say that if you feel disappointed, take a minute. That sucks. And I will have people and and this is what I did for years, so that’s why it’s so easy for me to recognize. I will have people that are be like, I

Sami Kinnison (13:29)
They almost immediately go for the silver lining.

Angela Belford (13:31)
Yeah, they

do. they instantly go to I know, whatever and I’m like, No, no, no, no, no, that sucked. And they’re like,

Sami Kinnison (13:38)
Right.

Angela Belford (13:39)
Yeah, it it kind of did. And I’m like, How do we feel what that feels like for a minute? Like, just can you give yourself like five or ten minutes? You worked on this project for months and months and months. Like, take a minute and feel how crappy it feels that you didn’t get what you wanted.

Because if you don’t, your body is gonna store that up and it’s gonna come out at a time when you don’t need it to. And so you might as

Sami Kinnison (14:03)
Right.

Angela Belford (14:04)
well take the opportunity because it’s coming out eventually. So take the time and be like, yeah, this sucks. And we have such a deep fear of wallowing. And I’m just like, ten minutes is not wallowing. It’s not. I mean, and and maybe that’s the maybe hopeful anticipation is the idea to

To help people who are afraid of becoming a wallower. And they’re like, no, no, no. And this is what I did for years. If positive thinking is the thing, then I’m gonna, you know, stop with the thought and then create the feeling, I might as well just skip over the feeling and just jump right to the positive thinking. But you don’t do yourself any favors when you do that. So that’s not what

Sami Kinnison (14:50)
Right.

Angela Belford (14:50)
this is about. It’s about feeling your feelings, and also it’s the idea that.

The opposite of an expectation is not apathy.

Sami Kinnison (14:59)
Mm. I on the wallowing thought when one, I want to ask somebody like, what is an appropriate amount of time to feel something? can you can you acknowledge that for yourself? And then one, like, your estimation is probably short. You probably have more time to feel that. I think about I w when you grow a human inside you during pregnancy, that’s nine months of growing, the like

Hormones in your body don’t go back to normal until at least 18 months after that baby’s born. It took twice as long to heal from the pregnancy than it did to be pregnant. And there are things in our life when we experience grief. Like I was working towards this goal for two years. So I’m gonna give myself 10 minutes to feel sad about it. And you’re like, is that a reasonable? And it’s like, you know, you might be sad about it.

For a month. Like who knows?

Angela Belford (16:03)
And there is there is a pendulum and there are a group

Sami Kinnison (16:07)
Yes.

Angela Belford (16:08)
of people who are like, my gosh, I got my feelings hurt two years ago. I can never speak up again. And it’s like,

Sami Kinnison (16:15)
Right.

Angela Belford (16:16)
okay, is that an appropriate amount of time to to

Sami Kinnison (16:20)
Right.

Angela Belford (16:21)
to feel the feelings on that?

Sami Kinnison (16:23)
I think if you are somebody who’s like, well, I have no idea what an appropriate amount of time is. Imagine a friend and them saying, like, hey, this is how I’m feeling. What do you think is a good estimate of time? And it does not have to be all consuming. It can be something,

Angela Belford (16:39)
That’s great.

Sami Kinnison (16:40)
especially when you’re looking at more complicated feelings like grief and after the loss, like you’re probably not gonna be done feeling that for a while. And there are ways that you can.

Give it time and space without letting it take over your whole life. yes.

Angela Belford (16:58)
And

compartmentalization, all of the coping tools that we use can still be used from time to time if we use them intentionally and we use them thoughtfully. So like I had someone that was like, Hey, I’ve got this really horrible situation going on. My job is pretty easy, but I’m not getting a lot of fulfillment from it. But I you know, am collecting a paycheck, but I have all these huge, terrible things. So I think I’m gonna quit my job, take a

leave of absence so I can spend more time like allowing my feelings and I go, I don’t know. Like maybe that’s a good idea, but you’re telling me that you are capable of producing the amount of work needed to generate the paycheck. And then you would have eight hours in the evening and then eight hours of sleep. Do you need sixteen hours a day to

Wallow in those feelings now you might because there was some complicated medical things, and you might need time off so that you can actually be with the person that needs care while this is going on. But I’m like, you might not need time off work, like you might actually need to do a job and and you may need to pause starting your new business. Because I did say I don’t know that if this is the right season for you to start your business, but are there things you can do?

The are there parts of starting your business that can bring you some joy and some fulfillment in the middle of that? And maybe it goes slower, but maybe you can go ahead and start planting some seeds. And maybe you just create some some groups of people and you just invite them for you know, the beginning part of community that they’re not paying for yet, but this will be joyful for you. And maybe you’ll have to slow that season of starting your business. And it’s like

okay. I’m like, I’m here to tell you that li we may say life is short, but life is long. Long. It’s been a long time since I was twenty six years old and bought a business and had three little baby kids. So it has been a very, very long time since then. Heck, this year it’s been five years since I left the housing authority. Five years. That’s crazy town to me. It feels like forever and so much has happened.

Since then. I published two books since I left the Housing Authority. So I just say that like, and maybe it’s maybe my hopeful anticipation actually comes from a whole lot of things not working out.

Sami Kinnison (19:36)
Mm.

Angela Belford (19:36)
And that is what has caused me to be able to say, wow, they didn’t work out. And yet then look at all of this bounty of blessings that I got even still.

Sami Kinnison (19:48)
What can you do to help model to the people around you? Hopeful anticipation. There’s a tension between just the toxic positivity response, the what’s the silver lining? How would you encourage that balance and and still find new ways to model? Like this is what I like, there’s almost an acceptance to it. I don’t know. What are your thoughts on this? And how do you demonstrate it to others?

Angela Belford (20:13)
Yeah.

Well, for starters, if somebody’s crying, let cry. Let cry. I know that sounds basic, but I recently had a situation where I just like somebody asked me how I was and apparently I felt safe enough with them and I just burst into tears. And I was met with, you know, it’s all gonna work out okay. Can I have five minutes just cry? Like I mean it was not thirty seconds, so let cry if they need cry.

It’s my party, I can cry if I want to. The other thing is that be aware that of your hula hoop, and you can only control what’s inside your hula hoop, you know, like that’s that’s your locus of control. And so you can’t always control other people. And and I would try to read the room. Like if somebody is like, woe is me.

instead of just offering them new advice, say, did it sounds like you’ve fallen in I have literally said this to my friends. It sounds like you have fallen into like a deep dark hole. Are you wanting me to sit by the top of the hole so that you’re not by yourself? Or are you wanting me to drop a ladder so you can help crawl out? Right? ‘Cause I can I can I can give you a ladder to help crawl out and and it’s not as dark as you think it is.

the other thing is that sometimes people have to get there on their own. Like you can’t always lead a horse to water. You have to let them. And so I think the most important thing is just take control of your own actions and your own feelings and and be able to model crying when you need to, being sad when you need to, and then choosing how you want to go forward.

Sami Kinnison (22:06)
I recently got a compliment that I’m still trying to process that somebody said they admired my neutral positivity. And it I was like, say more words. I don’t think I understand. And specifically, somebody was being negative in a conversation where they’re like, well, this is how it always is. And I challenged it and was like,

I was like, well, actually, what’s really cool is that it’s not always this way. And this is not actually what’s happening. And and I in a way that didn’t feel like I was being a contrarian, was able to challenge, well, maybe it’s not this way. Maybe something could be different. Maybe something will work out. And a way that was inviting others into that hope. And and specifically, like I didn’t

I I didn’t set out to make anybody feel bad, but I also sometimes to a fault. I want things to be accurate. And so when somebody says always or never, you can expect me to say something. and if I didn’t say it out loud, I’m darn sure thinking it in my head because it’s it it’s it’s just not true. Like it’s not always or never. And so I was able to offer, and I think this is there’s too many people who are like, You’re sad.

Well, there’s a silver lining. And stand on the other side to be like, yes, you’re sad. And like, let’s be sad. And that makes sense that you feel sad. It also makes sense that there’s a silver lining somewhere. And it makes sense that you feel sad. A silver lining on a cloud, it’s still a storm cloud that we’re describing. That like the sun is shining, and you see the that’s where that comes from. Because we if we really think about that, it’s talking about the

Silver lining on a rain cloud and the way that the sun shines on it does this thing and it makes a really beautiful thing, but it happens because there is a dark cloud in the middle. Like accept and acknowledge both. And when we are trying to reject one for the other on either direction, either we want to go all storm cloud or all silver lining, I think it’s wrong. I think it is because of the storm cloud, there is a silver lining and both get to be there. It is both.

This stinks, and something good can come from it. So find a way to delightfully and positively challenge if somebody’s trying to live in too much all or not like all one way or all the other, to be like, actually, it’s both, and that’s okay. So that’s what we got for you guys. Hopefully, this builds some hope within you, and just this idea that you can see.

things as bigger than what the actual moment might be. Look for the positive that’s gonna happen. Look for the good things that are gonna come forth from quote, the bad things and be open to that. Cause if you’re not open to it, you’re not gonna notice it. It is happening all around you. It is truly just about what lens are you putting on to look through and have you decided to try find those moments or not.

Thank you everybody for listening. And until next time, we hope you guys go be freaking awesome.